Eduardo Sierra  Interviewer

Geri Portnoy

Eduardo: Hello Geri. I understand that you recently experienced an awakening at a Waking Down retreat. Can you share something about that?

Geri: Yes, I had my Second Birth in May at the Transfiguration Retreat (TR).  Just prior to that, I shifted from a place of talking about my awakening as if it were something that was outside of myself, to actually claiming and feeling that I Am Awakening — it’s already happening, it’s flowing through me, it’s the process that I Am – as opposed to thinking about it as something outside myself that I’m trying to attain.

Do you want specifics of what happened at the TR that led me to my Second Birth ?

Eduardo: Yes, that would be great.

Geri: Being at the TR I dropped down below the level of my thinking mind and more  into the felt experience of my body and what was going on with me on a moment to moment basis.  Then I went to a morning offering with Deborah on Somatic Experiencing.  She had us do a practice and when we finished that she said, “how do you feel?” When I finished that little practice I felt like I had dropped into myself — I felt like I had really landed in my shoes.  Before that moment I always felt like I was standing above myself, or behind myself, or outside myself.  Then that moment when she said “how do you feel now,” I felt like for the first time in my life I was here.  I was right behind my eyes and I was looking at the world and feeling my feet against the earth in a way  I never had before.  I never realized that I was feeling this sense of separation from myself, or not fully in my body until that moment.

Shortly after that she had us walk around on the earth and feel the support of the earth beneath us and I actually felt completely connected to the big earth, as if I were being held by the earth in a big field of consciousness, which I was.  When I then encountered another person, I felt this discomfort come up.  I felt the discomfort in a brand new way because I felt it in the context of this bigger energy that I was, this bigger field that included the holding of the earth, so I was really able to experience that feeling more deeply, the feeling of discomfort.  I think it was a discomfort of we had to partner up with somebody, so it was the moment of feeling at ease walking by myself and now I’m walking with someone else and we’re going to interact.  I was just able to feel my discomfort and be with it in a unique and new way.  Just get completely intimate with that feeling without anything to separate or push it away and not feel it.  I felt like I had this whole new freedom in a way to experience myself and life.  That was a HUGE shift.

Later that same day I went into small group with Ted and Sylvia.  In the small group setting I had a traumatic emotional experience related to my first birth into this world being given up by my birth mother.  Somehow that thing got really triggered for me and I was feeling all the emotions around that.  Sylvia was holding me and supporting me while I was moving through the intense emotion and really feeling it more deeply than I’ve ever been able to feel it before.  I’ve always felt like I’ve had to keep myself separate somehow from those difficult emotions and they would overwhelm me if I got too involved in them.  Actually, there was just a great freedom in just fully feeling.  It was like that whole living of the deep emotion and deep pain of that kind of separation at birth.

Eduardo: Kind of different than your thinking mind anticipated?

Geri: Yeah, right, thinking mind would guide me away from it to feel better, but it was a paradox lean right into it and I feel it deeply, ultimately, really feel better.

As I finished this deep experience, I open my eyes and I looked into Sylvia’s eyes and Sylvia is awake and I can just see this awakeness in her eyes.  I could feel it in myself and in her and in the other people in the group.  It somehow metaphorically felt like a second birth , like a…  I’m not sure exactly when that shift happened, but part of it happened right then as I opened my eyes and saw Sylvia’s eyes and saw people in the group.  It was just this resonance with this whole new level of being; of my own being in resonance with their being.  Ted said to me the same thing that he had been saying to me all week, which was, “if this was all there were to life would this be enough?” All week I had been feeling into life and answering him, NO! Awakening has got to be more than this.  This could not possibly be all of it.

After that moment, and after that deep emotional experience and then opening my eyes into this recognition of the presence of Being.  I just felt myself differently.  I felt myself right in the mix of life.  Like, right in the group, not separate from the group, it was an immediacy.  I was right there with life, not up in the bleachers watching life.  Feeling life deeply and living life deeply and connecting to people deeply.  In that moment when I felt into Ted’s question “is this enough,” I recognized for the first time that this is enough. I just felt this great relief from all that striving to get somewhere else. “Yes, if this were all there were, this would be enough!” It was like that whatever it was that had been missing, –that felt sense that “there’s something more to life, and I’m seeking that,” — was just gone. I felt like enough; life felt like enough.  My experience did not feel spectacular, which was the paradoxical part of it.  It wasn’t phenomenal; it just felt kind of normal, normal AND immensely beautiful, rich, and intimate.

Eduardo: Ordinary and extraordinary all at the same time.

Geri: Nicely said, that’s exactly how it felt.

Eduardo: You referred to gazing into Sylvia’s eyes when you opened yours and the awakeness you saw there, could you describe that.?

Geri: Often when I look into other peoples eyes, there’s a distance.  Like, I’m seeing their eyes, but I’m not seeing the presence behind their eyes.  There’s a vacant look in their eyes, so I don’t feel met.  I don’t feel met on a fundamental deep level.  When I looked up and I looked into Sylvia’s eyes, there was radiance to her eyes.  In the yoga world we call it Tejase or Ojas, it’s like that radiant inner light that shines out through their eyes.  So, it was like her eyes almost sparkled, but beyond that, she was fully present; I felt completely utterly seen by her.  She was right there.  Being met in that way was so powerful.  Her eyes, on a visual level they were kind of sparkling and  on a felt level there was that deeper presence of her really being right there behind her eyes and fully aware of me and the whole moment.  That’s the same thing that I see in Ted’s eyes.  Then I looked over at Ted, who was the teacher of the group, and he had that same sparkle, that same, I completely see you. I completely felt seen by him, seen in that way of nonjudgmental, complete acceptance and embrace and presence.

Eduardo: What has changed in your life since then?.

Geri: First thing that I noticed that was different was the sense of immediacy that I felt with life.  Like, getting back to what I said earlier about how I used to feel more like I was standing at a safe distance behind myself, kind of behind myself in the bleachers of life, looking down on the playing field of life.  But, all of the sudden coming back from the TR, I not only felt myself full and present within my body, right behind my eyes, but I also felt my world as if I were immersed in the center of everything.  I felt everything very deeply.  Sometimes it felt overwhelming.  It felt like there was an intimacy, a connectedness with people, even people that I didn’t really know and even people that I didn’t really like.  It wasn’t my mind creating the intimacy; it was more of a felt sense of underlying connection on that level of essence.  Sometimes that felt overwhelming for me, so sometimes I would contract away from that experience.

The second thing I felt that shifted was my ability to feel.  Since my experience at the TR,  I felt connected to this bigger presence, this bigger sense of being okay and held in this bigger field which allowed me to completely feel my feelings, even the uncomfortable ones.  They didn’t feel as threatening.  It didn’t feel as if that was all I was.  I was experiencing the intensity of my feelings, AND there was also this bigger presence, this place in me that’s okay.  I felt an okayness AND I was feeling my emotions more powerful and fully than I ever had in my life.  That was such a gift.  I felt like I am really alive now, I’m really living life; I’m not just escaping life.  I can have that sense of peace right in the mix of dancing in the fire of life.

I think those were to two main shifts.

Eduardo: Do you feel like your process is done?

Geri: Well, the first feeling of, Whew!  I’m done – lasted about two days.  But then I recognized that all my teachers and friends are telling me it’s a continuous journey, and that’s what I’m feeling now.  My teacher, Rod, continues to tell me I’m like a toddler now that’s learning to negotiate this new realm, this new way of being.  That’s kind of what it feels like.   I guess another shift that’s happened since my awakening is the shift of feeling life living me.  Like, there’s this force, this Being force that’s surging through me that’s guiding me, that’s calling me forward. It’s very different than just my ego telling me what to do. It’s qualitatively different—it’s much more mysterious.  So, I feel like I’m just learning how to let life live me, let this Being force guide me and tune to it and welcome it and move with life in that way.

Eduardo: Sounds like it’s all about trust.

Geri: I guess that’s the threshold I’m at right now.  There’s this bit of hesitation about trusting and following Being.  I’ve been habituated to follow my logical rational mind.  The more I relax into allowing Being to lead, the more magnificent the journey becomes.  I pulsate, I definitely oscillate back and forth between trust and a bit of distrust or hesitation, but more and more leaning towards that trust that you’re talking about.

Eduardo: What’s it like to experience oscillating between trust and distrust?  It sounds kind of confusing. Have you had much of that?

Geri: I have, Yes, on both sides.  Before my awakening I had an event with Ted and Hillary, I had what felt like an oscillation into my Second Birth , so I had an oscillation into a place of feeling deeply connected to everyone and everything.  Then as I returned back to my everyday life I oscillated back.  That oscillation back lasted several months, like five months, until the TR.  At the TR, I went through another oscillation into my awakening.  This time I’ve had some oscillations since then, but always if I check in then I can still find that connection to the unwavering dimension of my self.  Sometimes it’s so faint that it’s not in my immediate awareness, so I can feel completely, in moment, consumed by my stuff and questioning whether I’m awake.  How can I be feeling so much of the messiness of life and be awake?

Someone asked me, I think it was Rod Taylor – if I could trade my awakening in, would I?  I had to really think about it. It was like a part of me definitely wanted to trade it in.  It was intense.  Now, as I’m further down the road, there’s no way.  If I could go back, I wouldn’t go back.  It’s such a great gift.

Eduardo: What are your passions today, what gets you excited in this place you find yourself now?

Geri: To tell you the truth what really excites me lately is sharing this kind of work and this potential for awakening with other people.  I teach yoga right now, and I am feeling like there is a way to supplement my yoga teachings with opportunities for people to dive deeper into the journey of awakening.  I guess that’s really what I am most passionate about right now.  I’m kind of unfolding into this new era of my own awakening and starting to integrate even the subtle, or not so subtle, philosophical differences between what truly leads to awakening and what is often taught, especially in the world of yoga, as practices.  For instance – if we feel upset; when I used to feel upset I would do more meditation, or do more yoga, or do a mantra, but do something to get away from that because something was fundamentally wrong with me.  I feel like it’s such a great gift to have the waking down philosophy that there’s nothing to be fixed or changed or transcended when we’re having uncomfortable feelings.  Instead, the yoga is to unite with the feelings — to feel them and then they dissolve back into the ocean of consciousness.  This whole journey of awakening is really what I am most passionate about right now.

Eduardo: Is that changing the way you teach yoga?

Geri: As I’m going through oscillations and I’m feeling myself more deeply, it’s almost as of I’m coming to know parts of myself that had been more pushed back.  A couple weeks ago I was feeling this fiery passion coming forward, about being able to see people’s alignments more clearly, and actually kind of forcefully—in a subtly invasive way—correcting people in their practice.  Usually I had been very reserved and peaceful and calm and kind of subdued, so it was like learning to negotiate the new fire that’s coming through me without creating harm for other people, and learning to have more of a refined expression of what it is that I want to communicate.  That would have been what felt negative at the time.  Then recently I felt a deepening into myself, more of a settling into a deeper part of myself where I am able to express and speak more authentically, and more from that direct personal experience.  On this level I’m able to connect more deeply with students.  They can really feel the authenticity of what I’m saying, and that I’m not just speaking words from a book or something that I’ve read, it’s actually what I’ve lived.  I think that’s really having a powerful effect.  The good side of it is being able to meet people and communicate with people more deeply.

Eduardo: Yoga means union, doesn’t it?

Geri: Right, yoga traditionally means union or connection, but historically it’s been a connection to the transcendent, so historically yoga was used more by the ascetics to escape the world and dwell in that united place with the divine.

Eduardo: A transcendental approach?

Geri: Exactly, and so there is a new stream of the evolution of yoga which is a Tantric path.  It’s starting to embrace this notion that when we connect to the divine we can connect to the divine that’s here on this earth, that’s here in everything and everyone.  So, I feel like yoga is giving voice to that from a Tantric perspective, but I don’t know that Hatha yoga itself is enough to lead people into a true union, a true awakening.

Eduardo: Please explain what you mean by Tantra, in this case.

Geri: Well, the idea of Tantra, being to stretch or extend the notion of what is sacred.  Historically there’s been a split between what’s sacred and what’s not sacred.  In Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras, abstinence was recommended and sex is not sacred.  Often in our culture money or business has been perceived as not sacred, and the holy or the sacred is somewhere out in this refined realm of purity, of Being.  Tantra extends the limits of what is sacred, and from a Tantric perspective, there’s nothing that is not a expression of the divine, so everything in that sense is sacred.  The old Tantrikas around the 8^th century practiced in graveyards because even in graveyards the sacred dwells and they would eat meat, because meat was forbidden in the more Orthodox practices, but there was this notion that the sacred dwells everywhere so the sacred must dwell in meat as well as other types of forbidden cuisine.  So really Tantra is misrepresented as sacred sexuality, which is just a part of it.  It’s really the inclusion of all parts of ourselves, and all parts of the world as manifestation of the one supreme sacred energy.

Eduardo: Beautiful.  Is there anything more you’d like to say about that?

Geri: There actually is integration for me in the Hatha Yoga and Tantra.  Most recently there are a couple of streams of Hatha Yoga, I think Rod Stryker is brining forth a stream of Hatha Yoga that is Tantric based, philosophically Tantric based and so is John Friend and Anusara Yoga, which is the style of Yoga I teach.  Even before my awakening I taught a Tantra based style of Hatha Yoga.  I think it’s very helpful.  I think the Hatha Yoga practice took me in the direction of specifically the ability to embrace paradox, to embrace two opposite things happening in the same pose, say, heaviness and lightness.  And how my mind would want it to always just be light and never be heavy, but to actually be able to feel heavy and light—feel the bigger embrace of both into a larger whole.  That element of the Hatha Yoga practice seemed to facilitate awakening for me.

Eduardo: Thanks, Geri.  How do you see your awakening as different from what you thought it would be?

Geri: Most of the stories that I read about awakening were awakening into the bliss and the light and freedom.  I had this idea that awakening meant more of a transcendent awakening – awakening just to peace and bliss and light and happiness.  This awakening, not unique to myself, but unique from the other myths of awakening that I read about, this unique awaking, my awakening, was awakening to all parts of myself.

Eduardo: Bodily speaking as well?

Geri: Actually that was part of the journey.  That was part of the journey where Hatha Yoga was helpful . I was actually becoming sensitive and aware of the parts of myself that were not included in the Yoga poses, something simple like inner thighs not being engaged.  So, yes, it was partly physical.  It started there with that discerning awareness to notice what’s engaged and what’s not engaged and what part of myself might not accept coming forward.  What part of myself am I overly using?  Then what I was referring to more profoundly on an inner level, was an awakening to all parts of myself.  Like, the part of myself that wasn’t always happy, peaceful and blissful, but the part of me that felt down or depressed or angry or sad or frustrated, or moody.  I had always seen myself as this very stable, centered, peaceful yogini, and throughout my awakening I became this more wild, Shakti filled woman with ups and downs and feelings. Feeling this way and feeling that way.

Eduardo: Can you give a couple of examples?

Geri: I guess a simple example would be feeling angry. For instance, historically I used to push the anger away and just dwell on that place of peace and centeredness and on the journey of my awakening. Now I recognize that I have this capacity to get angry.  It doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m going to go hit people, or act out my anger, but I definitely feel that this a core essential part of my being.  There’s a messiness to that. My rational mind preferred that I was never angry, to just be more yogic.  Really this awakening has been an awakening to my whole being.  So it’s an awakening to all these parts of self and that there is a richness in this whole being textured self, as opposed to just living in a sliver, a tiny fragment of myself.  I also noticed that I am awakening to – I used to be very shy, quiet, and now I feel like my voice is coming forth.  I have more passion and more desire to speak my truth, to live my truth. So yeah it’s a very unique awakening because I am awakening as ME.  Somehow, I thought I was going to awaken as a Mother Theresa.

Eduardo: I have one last question. I’m wondering, as you look back from here, about your path and the teachers you’ve had, that led you to where you are now?

Geri: This is something that I’ve just been contemplating the last week.  Really seeing how it’s like a thread of awakening, or maybe many threads of awakening, this tapestry of awakening that’s been woven throughout my life, so yeah, I would say the teaching lineage that lead me into this; there was a martial arts background that originally got me intrigued and on the spiritual path.  There was a gentleman by the name of Master Francis, and then there was the Yoga path that I took directly after that.  Specifically there are too many teachers to mention, but Tim Miller and John Friend have been two of my main teachers.  John Friend is the one who started mentioning awakening.  As soon as he started saying we’re on this journey to awakening something in the cells of my body just started to light up. ” I am on this journey of awakening”.  I started including that intention at the end of my Yoga practice:  ”may I awaken, may I help all beings awaken”.  Then I met Greg Aurand, who I had a relationship with for a while, who brought me to Saniel and Linda. It was through Saniel Bonder and Linda Groves-Bonder that I came into the work of Waking Down in Mutuality; and they were my first teachers.  I hold the greatest love and respect for them and how they guided me through my first few years in Waking Down.  Then I’ve has many teachers since then.  Greg was a teacher in the beginning and has continued to be a very powerful teacher in my awakening.  From Saniel and Linda, then I started working with Ted Strauss and Rod Taylor.  Rod Taylor has been my teacher for the past two years or so.  He and Ted were integral in my awakening, as well as teachers that I see less frequently, but have still had a powerful impact, Deborah Boyer from that Somatic Experiencing episode at the Transfiguration Retreat.  I’ve worked with Sandra Glickman periodically; she’s been kind of a wise sage guiding me.  I think all the teachers -  because I interacted with them –  I felt their transmission at the TR.  Mentors like Sylvia, who was there to hold me while I was experiencing the trauma of being abandoned at birth – just so many teachers, all the teachers really.  Whenever I would go up and talk to a teacher they were always available, always supportive.  One of the things that really helped me too were the books, specifically Saniel Bonder’s books, like White Hot Yoga of the Heart.  Hearing other people describe their journey of awakening, it helped to remind me as I was moving along, that there’s nothing wrong. That this is how the process is, that it’s a hero’s journey, that it involves the dark night of the soul. That just helped give context to what I was going through.  Ted helped as well with his web site, it has a lot of writings, and I continue to read them.

Eduardo: Sounds pretty helpful.

Geri: Yes, the essays, they’re so helpful.  Just the other day I was having a big conflict, and he has this essay all about conflict, how both sides of conflict are Being.  His conclusion is that nothing’s wrong.  It feels uncomfortable but they’re both aspects of Being.  Somehow it was just helpful; it gave me a little bit of relief, a little bit of comfort, a little bit of perspective.  Your monthly newsletters, Mutuality Matters, with all the poetry and the art, and the beautiful pictures—those were helpful, as well.  I remember looking forward to opening that.  There’s just a resonance that was created by reading what spoke to this emerging, awakening, part of myself.

Eduardo: It’s been said that the transmission of awakened Being is resonantly clear and obvious and strong when you’re sitting at the foot of the teacher, so to speak, and you’re sharing company physically together, but it can be transmitted in other ways; through recordings, through video tapes, and even through books, the printed word.  That has become more clear to me as over time. That wasn’t so much of a question as it was a comment that you inspired by what you were talking about.

Geri: I like that idea of transmission. That’s such an important part of this work, and it’s what allows the transformation to happen, as opposed to really doing or making the awakening happen.  A big part of it was just placing myself in that field of transmission, and through all those means that you mentioned.

Eduardo: This has been delightful talking to you today, Geri.

Geri: It’s been my pleasure Eduardo.  Thank you so much.

Eduardo Sierra  Interviewer

Juliet Amoroso

Eduardo: Hi Juliet, how are you?

Juliet: Hi Eduardo, I’m well.

Eduardo: Good.  I understand you recently had an awakening.  How would you describe it?

Juliet: Well, the event was a feeling of ‘I’m here.’  A sense of I’m fully here.

Eduardo: Was it a thing that slowly crept up on you, this sense, or was it something that was just dramatically, BOOM and there it was.

Juliet: I’m guessing that it was slowly creeping up for a while.  There was definitely a moment when I experienced it.

Eduardo: Was it unlike you to have ever felt that way before?

Juliet: Yes, that was definitely new for me.  It was a palpable moment and it was nice because there was an audience for it, which I like.

Eduardo: How do you mean?

Juliet: I was at the Transfiguration Retreat, and we were in a group of ten students, two teachers, and a mentor.  We were going around the room, and Ted Strauss asked me about my 2^nd birth, and I listed a number of things that demonstrated to me that I had not had not had my 2^nd birth.  The last thing I mentioned was that I didn’t want to say something that made me sound like I was further along than I am.  He said, “well that’s fine, it’s okay to say something that has you be less than you are.” That’s pretty much my MO – saying I’m not as farn along, and less than I am.  I felt busted and kind of freed and that was the moment that I felt fully here.

Eduardo: Wow.  Right in front of everybody and everything.

Juliet: Right in front of everybody, which I loved.

Eduardo: Was it apparent to folks?  Could they pretty much tell?

Juliet: I don’t know.  It was apparent to me.

Eduardo: So your sense was in the sense of feeling present?

Juliet: Yes.

Eduardo: In that moment what did that feel like?  How was that different from ever before?

Juliet: I felt connected to the earth, connected to my body, it felt like I inhabited my body for the first time.

Eduardo: Are there other differences from what’s been usual for you?

Juliet: The last couple of months I’ve been happy — which is much different than how I usually feel.  I do feel like there’s a foundation under me, that trustable universe in a big picture kind of way.

Eduardo: That must be a source of some relief?

Juliet: Yes, it’s a huge relief.

Eduardo: When you say happy, can you explain a little and I know that’s an obvious word, but in your particular case, how does that look?

Juliet: I feel like my whole life I’ve felt kind of dark and heavy.  I feel light and I also feel open to receive what’s available. Like, delightful things available.  I feel like this new boyfriend is a result of that – feeling open to receive what are actually wonderful parts of the universe – for us in the material world anyway.

Eduardo: In a way you seem to be saying that by being present, and being awake in the here & now, you’re both more grounded and more open to manifest into your life things you might wish.

Juliet: Yes.

Eduardo: That’s very cool.

Juliet: It is very cool.

Eduardo: Do you feel like at this point you’re done, or are you just beginning?

Juliet: I feel like actually both.  I don’t feel a compulsion to fix myself or to find an answer.  I feel settled into the answer and at the same time it definitely feels like a very wonderful starting place.  The world seems new and crisp and different.  It also definitely seems like a starting place for being with myself and being with all that is and being with other people.  It feels like a little bit of a fog has been lifted.

Eduardo: How do you see the effect of that fog lifting in terms of your work day, your relationships or anything like that?

Juliet: So far it seems less serious and less heavy and dark.  It’s more meaningful.

Eduardo: Has your daughter noticed anything?

Juliet: I don’t know.  I’ve talked to her on the phone a few times, she’s in Los Angeles.  I don’t know.

Eduardo: How about your close friends that you see more frequently?

Juliet: Waking Down people say they sort of notice, other people don’t know what I’m talking about, so no.

Eduardo: Speaking of Waking Down, what role do you see that it played in this transition?

Juliet: It played the whole role.

Eduardo: It played the whole role.

Juliet: Yeah, the whole role of giving me the idea of what an awakening even is, because I didn’t even know before…. and providing the container.  The Transfiguration Retreat is a very safe container.  And all the teacher and mentor conversations I’ve had, opening me up and guiding me.  It wasn’t possible without Waking Down for me.

Eduardo: I wonder it you could dig out an example of how that worked from your own personal experience.

Juliet: Especially the question that Ted asked in the Transfiguration Retreat meeting, something, just showing a light on a shadow aspect of my whole modus operandi.  His question woke up who I was my whole life and made it like, oh!  It seemed like it was not really working anymore.  I think without the safety of the Transformation Retreat container, that question would have gone unnoticed.  It wouldn’t have had the impact that it did.

Eduardo: So, several circumstances were converging there at that moment.

Juliet: Right, the transmission and the safety.  It had me more open and vulnerable, and clearer than I am ordinarily.

Eduardo: Seems like that clarity lets you look at your foggy self or shadowy self with a new perspective it seems like.

Juliet: Yes.

Eduardo: You used the word transmission, can you explain just a little of what you mean by transmission.

Juliet: My idea of transmission is a mystical, magical, palpable experience of oneness.  That comes from awakened teachers.  It’s a gift.

Eduardo: From the place you are now, what do you feel grateful about?

Juliet: Conversations with teacher and mentors.

Eduardo: What did they do for you – those conversations?

Juliet: They gave me a clear sense of myself.  They probed consciousness with me. That was something that I struggled with on my own.

Eduardo: So here you are now, perhaps the answer to this isn’t any different than before, but maybe so.  What are your passions today?  What excites you as you experience your life in this new way?.

Juliet: I think…  I’m not sure.  I think there’s way more delight being in a physical body than there was.  There’s more appreciation with my connections with people.  My connections with people feel deeper and more delightful.

Eduardo: You find that surprising or is that what you expected?

Juliet: It was all surprising.  I had no idea what to expect.

Eduardo: In relation to your work, what do you notice?

Juliet: It’s actually made me a better worker.  I’m more able to focus on what I’m doing.

Eduardo: Would you mind elaborating a little on that?

Juliet: In my work, I’m a bookkeeper.  Before I kind of had a harder time attending to one task.  I feel more able to sit still.  Also, I’ve stopped drinking alcohol, which feels really great.  That’s a big upgrade for me, physically and more mental clarity and more ease in the world.

What I had was an embodied awakening and it made me rest from seeking to find more answers.

Eduardo: Please elaborate on that.

Juliet: I feel like my whole life I’ve been a big inquirer, like, wanting to know, wanting to get to the bottom of what it means to be human.  I feel like I’m taking a rest from that.  It’s not driving me.  I’m still interested.  I feel, for now anyway, like a spectator, like an observer, but all the while being a human being watching it with a little bit more distance than I had, more distance and more closeness, more tenderness towards myself and other people.  Not so tangled up and upset about watching many of the things that we do, many of which don’t work.

Eduardo: What attracted you to Waking Down in Mutuality?

Juliet: The thing that attracted me was a friend I had, that I had done a number of these other things with over the years, who had a 2^nd birth awakening and was widely soft and vulnerable, like measurably, obviously, clearly, very different.  That attracted me.

Eduardo: It was in seeing people themselves who were going through a process of awakening that was a turn-on, then.

Juliet: Yes.  The softness and gentleness of the teachers and the approach, it seemed to have a very deep and powerful way of transforming me and others around me.  I felt like other things that I did also were transformative.  The other things that I did were invasive, so I would have to take a long time to integrate.  With Waking Down it’s all, kind of, real time, it just sort of happens.  Integration comes with the transformation because of the seeing and the gentleness.

Eduardo: This is fascinating, Juliet.

Juliet: Right.  That’s another difference for me.  I don’t feel like I’ve been given instructions to do things that I can’t do.  If I’m told to do something, no matter how great it is and I can’t do it then it really doesn’t make much of a difference. Waking Down is, in my sense, more of an invitation, and a really sweet invitation to me, where I am. It comes closer and deeper there.

Eduardo: I like how you’re languaging this.  I’m curious what you’ve seen in Waking Down that is so helpful in awakening people?

Juliet: First of all the transmission of the teachers, and also their training to listen to who you are, and where you are, and be with you there.  It’s not like I felt like I was getting away with anything, like, just to sit around and sort of wallow in some stupid place where I am, but more that where I am is honored and appreciated.  Honored and appreciated where I am and the teachers also have some gift to take me where I am to the next deeper place.

Eduardo: So it’s being held; that is, you’re being held as a student in this work with certain tenderness, and certain carefulness, and a respect to your uniqueness as an individual.  It seems like some of that’s what you’re saying.

Juliet: Exactly.

Eduardo: What do you see as your role here in the greater Waking Down community? Perhaps it’s the same, perhaps it’s something new emerging for you?

Juliet: I think it’s the same.  Actually, wait a minute – I do have an impulse to create a community in Portland where I am more than I did before.  I feel like before I actually had made efforts to make a community here and I feel like the way I was doing it was too harsh or something.  It had to be done my way, or none at all.  I feel like I have more ability to have it be more open, have it be what it wants to be and that I have more acceptance for that.  It can actually include other people instead of just me.

Eduardo: That’s really interesting to hear Juliet.  Oftentimes when I’m talking to people about awakening – especially in their own personal experience that it seems to have come as part of a package deal that includes this impulse, not only to share it, but also to share in a community where that is the common ground.  In the Buddhist terms they go Buddha, Dharma and then Sangha, which is one of the three jewels.  I noticed that there seems to be a built in impulse in awakening to share it and to join with others to celebrate it and live it.  It seems like that’s what you’re saying there with your last comment.

Juliet: Yes, I would agree.

Eduardo: Thank you very much Juliet, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today and and answering these questions.

Juliet: I feel like you asked all the right questions.

by Krishna Gauci

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Often people wonder about or ask questions that are a variation of this basic theme:

“How can I trust that this is really the highest form of enlightenment? What if I’m barking up the wrong tree here? What if the experience that you offer is not it? Sometimes I’m incredibly frustrated with the mistakes I’ve made spiritually. I’ve wasted my time following paths that did not leave me with the restful satisfied life that was promised. I feel foolish because I’ve been deceived in the past, how can I be sure that I won’t be disappointed again?”

Do you ever wonder about this yourself?

It’s a good question.

There are three related issues here: The notion of “full enlightenment”, the limits of what a teacher or teachings can give you and most importantly the ultimate nature of disappointment itself. Because of all of the ideas and assumptions we have around all this I will be repeating myself a lot here, saying the same thing from a number of different angles to flush everything out.

The way I see it, any form of awakening is just a beginning, and “full awakening” is an ever-receding horizon. This awakened life and every human life is filled with disappointment, but we still walk on. Through embrace of this situation, an embrace that cannot be forced or willed; surrender happens, despite us. Deep Trust and the unraveling of resistance happens through our disappointments. All that I actually have is a Deep Trust In Being and that’s all that I’m pointing to.

By doing your own Self-inquiry and examining the difference between that which changes and that which does not, one can discover oneself as Consciousness which is free of all concepts including notions of failure or success. Looking and finding your non-locatable existence (or is it locatable non-existence?) is the essential core and foundation of awakening. This can be an ongoing experiential exploration producing ever-deepening confidence in your freedom as Consciousness. We are all already free as the infinite, and totally at rest as That. This is my nature as it is yours, even if you do not have full trust that this is so.

On the other hand as the finite body/mind/soul personality (regardless of how transient and unreal that ultimately is) I appear as a limited being, who is deepening trust by both embracing and surrendering as that limited reality. Trust and surrender happen through my efforts to make life better, which bring about either failure or success, both of which eventually uncover the sense that “this is not enough”. The kind of surrendering that I’m speaking of here is not the result of attaining something, but of losing illusions about life through actually living it with a willingness to be at the effect of it’s limits.

Usually when folks hear me speak about Deep Trust they think in terms of letting go rather than holding on, surrendering rather than resisting, trusting rather than doubting, no-effort rather than effort. There’s a subtle but important difference here. I’m talking about a sort of “tantric” trust, one that includes its opposite. “Deep Trust” trusts the entire process of both surrendering and resisting, both trusting and doubting, both letting go and embracing. To my friends who speak the language of “letting go” I would say this: after you’ve let go of whatever you can let go of, you will probably notice that you still have something in your hands. If you feel you don’t have any desire at all then I suggest that you look more closely. Whatever that is, embrace it and live it.

I’m not suggesting that pursuing your desire will not ultimately end in something less than satisfaction, of course it will, but who said that you would escape this most human of situations? Awakening and deepening trust happens in the midst of the human situation for those of us who have hopes and fears. If you can let go of hope and fear in all of your life, by all means let go of all hope and fear. But if you find that you still hope for something and fear something else, even after all your efforts of “letting go,” just embrace it and go with it rather than being in denial about it. Live it out; it’s yours to live.

Trust continues to be developed through the disappointments that arise from both failure and success, and an often-difficult honesty with ourselves. This frees energy and attention that was stuck trying to avoid experience and releases it into a profound feeling of deep connection to life and a simple unconditioned awareness of it. This connectedness is often experienced as a current running through existence that can be a source of nurturance and well-being, but it can also be felt as a fire and it doesn’t necessarily make life any easier.

So yes, it can be a disappointment. That’s all I can “promise” and I really can’t even promise that. I certainly can’t say that this is not a “wrong tree” for you, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t anything here for you. You may be ready for more honesty than you thought you were.

Being “Really Enlightened”

“How can I trust that this is really the highest form of enlightenment?”

I remember the first of my teachers with whom I experienced Transmission. It was about twenty-five years ago; I was living in New York City and just getting by, living hand to mouth driving a taxi at night.

My teacher at the time was someone who studied with several teachers from both eastern and western traditions, but his appearance and manner were anything but the typical spiritual stereotype. He was a tall stocky white guy with a Jewish background who spoke with a refined but obvious Brooklyn accent. And while he went to an Ivy League school he still had a New York attitude and understood working class sensibilities. Fritz Perls himself had trained him in Gestalt Therapy; he had lived in India for five years and had been on the faculty at a well-known Tibetan meditation center in Berkley.

I came to him mostly to work on “my psychological stuff”, but I was also attracted to working with him because of his spiritual background as well. While he required me to meditate and read a couple of books, during our weekly sessions we hardly ever spoke about consciousness. Mostly we talked about daily life, my mother, and my anger.

During what was the second or third session something strange happened. While sitting there talking about my day at work I noticed that I could quite literally see him more clearly than anything else. It was like the pixels that made up his physical body were more densely packed and more clearly defined. I shifted how I was sitting and moved my head slowly from side to side, blinking my eyes to clear away this visual distortion. It continued unabated. Not only that but it got worse and I began to see something else. On hot summer days sometimes you can see “waves” that radiate off of the streets, a kind of “mirage” and now I was seeing them radiating from his body. “This is weird” I said out loud, “well, I’m a weird guy” he said calmly, “let’s get back to your work day”. At this point the room seemed filled and I began to feel something, “I’m seeing energy coming off of you” I told him. He said, “Energy is just a thing, an object; like the couch or the chair, just get back to the conversation about work”.

The whole thing was absurd; this was the first time that I experienced such a thing without any intent or trying on my part, and apparently no trying on his either. No drugs, no meditating, no chanting, no breathing exercises, no nothing. I was having a totally mundane conversation with him. As I tried in vain to ignore what was happening and talk about getting stiffed by another taxi fare, I noticed that I was changing. My breathing slowed down, my voice became deeper and more deliberate and I felt a warm sense of well-being. While I could feel everything, I was somehow watching myself unaffected. I was seeing myself in exactly the same way I was seeing everything and (I later noticed) everyone else, through an “objective”, quiet, equal seeing; an equal vision. This was no therapy session and it was more than I had dreamed possible. I had read about such things, but this was the first time I had ever experienced them myself in my own body, right here in New York, with a Brooklyn Jew no less.

I couldn’t help myself, I blurted out ” Are you enlightened?”

While the exact language eludes me, the heart of his answer has never left me.

He said something like this:

“Listen to you: ‘Am I enlightened?’ How would you know?

If I believe that I’m enlightened even if I’m actually not, I could say, ‘I am enlightened’, and you wouldn’t know if I was or wasn’t.

If I truly am enlightened and for some reason I think it’s important for you to think that I’m not enlightened then I could say to you ‘No, I’m not enlightened’ and you wouldn’t know.

And If I am enlightened and I say to you ‘Yes, I am enlightened’ then you still wouldn’t know just because I say so.

So why go there? Pay attention to your own process, that’s all that you can know about. All that you can possibly know about is your own enlightenment. Even if I were the Buddha himself, if you are not getting anything from being here with me then this is not where you should be. On the other hand, if you are receiving something for yourself, if you have some benefit from being here then that is all that is important and this is where you should be. ”

We’ve long ago gone our own ways, I’ve studied with many other teachers and now I also teach, but I’ll always remember those words.

I like to tell this story often, I repeat this because it’s very important; it’s a kind of key.

You are The Guru

Don’t overlook the obvious. You cannot give over responsibility for yourself to anyone else. Make good use of your teachers and respect the guidance that you allow yourself to make use of. Also remember that no one can relieve you of your responsibility for your life so be careful of those who imply that they can.

Today we live in a world in which we are exposed to many traditions of spiritual awakening. There are obviously many examples in world history of great spiritual realizations. The understanding of enlightenment is different in different schools and traditions. Even when someone is a realizer in his or her school there is no guarantee that that particular form of enlightenment is THE form of enlightenment. You know: “The Super-duper bestest of the best, Highest of the high, really truly enlightenest enlightened twelfth stage supreme state of the really truly truest awakening”.

I remember when I lived in New York that there used to be something written on most of the boxes of pizza-to-go: “You’ve tried the rest, now try the best”. Of course everyone says and may very well believe that their brand is the best. Just saying it doesn’t mean it’s true, and how would anyone check such a claim?

Can you be at peace with the possibility that you don’t have the means to validate what the highest form of enlightenment is? That it may be more important to be yourself than to be the Buddha?

Coming to terms with our past without sugar coating it ultimately means trusting Life while still being honest about how hard and confusing it can be.

Again: “Sometimes I’m incredibly frustrated with the mistakes I’ve made spiritually. I’ve wasted my time following paths that did not leave me with the restful satisfied life that was promised. I feel foolish because I’ve been deceived in the past, how can I be sure that I won’t be disappointed again?”

Making use of the guidance we receive and respecting it does not mean we always agree with everything that we’ve learned. Even when we find the need to leave a teacher or school, I feel it’s in our best interest to honor that we were led there to learn what we did. Being clear about how we differ with something we previously were involved in is not the same as dishonoring it. It’s important to honor our own past and our own inner source of guidance. Regretting how we’ve lived our lives is easy enough to do, but it’s helpful to consider that we were only always doing the best we could with what we knew at the time.

That said; let me be clear here, it’s true that sometimes we can find ourselves rightfully angry. It’s certainly helpful to be honest about wrongs that were done to others and ourselves in the name of spirituality. There are things in life that are not as they should be, to not admit this is to lie to ourselves and candy coat some real suffering. We and others may have experienced pain in the face of exaggerated claims made and promises not kept. And yet, if nothing else our bitter experiences lead us to listen more deeply to our own needs and intuition.

It is often just this honesty about what is painful, disappointing and terrible that makes life worth living in the midst of it’s suffering. The honesty about how false it all is is its truth. When we look at the world and say, “Where is life’s heart? How can life be so cruel?” THAT is life’s heart, it is Life’s Heart that is expressing this pain and outrage through your body and you are that Heart. So speak it loudly and clearly and allow yourself to be sobered by what you know.

Not just with spiritual teachers but throughout all of life there are grave disappointments and let downs. I’d like to suggest that at the same time that this discontent has been happening, events themselves have always been conspiring to point us to that which is trustable underneath everything that isn’t.

So this is the paradox that I’m always having to come to terms with: I find myself trusting life through and in the midst of circumstances that are un-trustable.

Life is the Goddess of Creativity through Limits

“What if I’m barking up the wrong tree here?”

How it looks to me:

Life can be a disappointment, but it’s just you and Her, and it seems that She only offers sub-standard imperfect trees, one after the other. For me the question is not: “Is this the right tree?” but rather: “Is this tree you find yourself with now yours to bark up right now?” Of course it’s natural that as soon as we discover that it’s the wrong tree we run to the next apparently better one… even as we begin to have the sneaking suspicion that they’re all not-quite-right. So although we move on to next “better” tree we know that it will not be enough. Do we then stop barking? Well, yes and no.

We no longer bark thinking we’ve found the big “IT”. But you know, dogs…they just love to bark, it’s just in their nature to bark. Dogs just can’t help but want the prize that they imagine must be hiding up in that tree, they can smell it…almost taste it.

This tree is honest in a way that many others are not, and that makes all the difference in the world. This tree has a sign on it that reads, “This tree and all others are a disappointment, so you can relax as you bark, because ‘IT’ isn’t here either”. Relaxing as you bark, you find YOURSELF, not “IT”. But even then you find that it’s your nature to bark. Life is by nature not perfectible, it will never be “right” except for a moment, and then it changes. Knowing this does not take away the urge in life (or us) towards perfection. This is the nature of evolution.

Whether we want a better car or we have a burning fire for deeper surrender to The Source of existence, life in form is always about going beyond… It’s never enough. When you find that everything lines up perfectly, you can be sure of one thing… it won’t last.

All of life is the continuous result of this untrustworthy process, isn’t that reason enough to trust it? The truth seems to be that we only trust life when we have no other option. I don’t find that I have a choice here; I end up trusting life more than I trust my ability to track if life is trustworthy.

It seems to me that Life is a living Goddess. Like any living being she shows up in ways that I often don’t anticipate, but no matter what choice I make, no matter what road I take, she is always my only partner.

Of course, it must be said (even if this late in the essay) that while fulfilling any particular desire is ultimately not satisfying, who can deny the amazing beauty in all of this? The awe inspiring unfolding evolution of nature not to mention all the achievements of humanity that have arisen through desire and our futile attempts at lasting satisfaction is an astonishing fountain of creativity. Life uses unfulfillable yearning to create the whole thing!

Just suppose the government funded a huge project to invent a time machine. Suppose that it failed in that endeavor, but along the way discovered the cure for cancer and invented thousands of new forms of technology. Who would call that a failure? Only those who wanted a time machine and were focused on that desire being fulfilled. Everyone else would be in gratitude for the accidental side benefits.

Every desire leads to the next thing to do, even if it ends up being “the wrong tree” in terms of our original intent. The benefit of pursuing our desire and getting disappointed is not the life we wanted (but did not get) but rather it’s this life that has actually unfolded. As John Lennon once said, “Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans.” Appreciating and even loving this life for the fireworks display it is, for the vulnerable flower it actually is (despite what we wished it would be); is devotion to Her (as She is).

Disappointment: the door to What Is

So by all means if you think you see a better tree, go for it! This path is not one that demands exclusivity. There is really no need to limit yourself, bark wherever you are moved to.

Expecting anyone to be able to tell you that you are not barking up the wrong tree is only trying to avoid the facts and makes you susceptible to exploitation. Of course you’re barking up the wrong tree! That’s all we ever do, it’s all we can do. The limited nature of manifest existence is made up entirely of wrong trees. As Suzuki Roshi once said: “Life is one mistake after another”. The biggest mistake is to think otherwise.

Our Infinite nature as Freedom, Consciousness, Buddha nature, Atman or the Self is free of all this. We are free of fulfillment and nonfulfillment, pleasure and pain, loss and gain. When attention or awareness is unconditioned by thought and simply dissolves into The Context of what is, our sense of separateness is gone and we are equally distributed everywhere. This knowing of our freedom can remain even when the sense of separateness returns and the thinking mind is back telling us “what is what”. The more we return to bath in the waters of unconditioned awareness where nothing is a success and nothing is a problem the more we become aware of ourselves where none of this is an issue.

At the same time, even by hearing such a statement we (in our sense of limitation) may find that we will not be able to help but make this freedom a goal, and the barking begins. Pursuing that goal may seem to improve our lives, as we get “closer and closer” to being “completely at peace”…or not.

Whenever we do refine our lives it is in the relative finite realm of human limitation that all improvements are made (spiritual or otherwise), and the sense of progress will be followed by another sense of limits.

As the Infinite no improvement is ever necessary.

In the realm of change and improvement nothing lasts. Every improvement is made on shifting sand. The limited will never reach the unlimited so it will always end in “not quite good enough”. Disappointment wears away hope and fear and leaves us simply here. Being simply here without hope or fear, we once again find we are always free.

Disappointment is not a wall but a door.

The more that we pursue our desires and dreams the more we feel the way “it’s not enough,” even if we fulfill our dreams. The more we become disenchanted with our plans the more we relax into what “just is”, even as we’re cooking up the next plan. The more we relax into what “just is” the more our nature as unconditioned freedom seeps through our life and we find ourselves simply Being, even in the midst of doing.

We can’t rush this; it takes it’s own time and it’s pace can be trusted. Besides, we have no choice.

We cannot “make a decision” to “not do doing” unless we’re willing to do “not doing”. If we decide to “not seek improvement” and think we are better off for it, then we would do well to notice that we are once again doing something (doing “not doing” and making an effort at not making effort) to improve our situation. Nothing wrong in doing this but there is a new danger of slipping back into failure/success mode. Now it’s failure/success at “not-doing”. So we could get stuck yet again failing at doing “not doing”….

The so-called alternative that I’m suggesting here is to simply see the dilemma and live it. We cannot help but to do what we feel will improve our situation, even though we know that ultimately it will fail to satisfy us altogether. This recognition relieves us of the burden of having to find (or pretend to find) fulfillment in life or to get things perfectly right according to some notion of perfection. Ironically, it frees us to just live.

We notice how we pursue our sense of what is most auspicious and pay attention to how we feel, and notice our expectations and how they are met and how they are not.

And something happens…

We embrace the activity of our human nature where there is failure and success.

And something else also happens…

We find ourselves falling into the silence of being where there is no idea of failure or success.

In other words…

We relax into the whole enchilada and it unfolds through us and as us in a way that is beyond us.

And that’s it.

This “Way”

I am not suggesting that this is the true path.

I am also not suggesting that it isn’t the true Path.

I’m suggesting that for many of us it is our truth.

For many of us this is the only thing we find we can do.

We have given up on finding the right tree and have come to feel that there are only wrong trees. Actually it’s not that they are wrong trees (or right trees), it’s just that they are always a disappointment if we expect fulfillment from the outcome. Every endeavor to improve our situation never quite meets the mark. This is the nature of things and there’s nothing wrong in all this, including the feeling that there is.

We don’t give up living; we don’t stop the effort to improve our lives in whatever form we feel is most useful. We find that we have no choice but to bark, because that’s what dogs (and people) do. We may know that we will never reach perfection and full satisfaction with any of our efforts, but we continue our activity as long as we still have any hope (or fear) related to what we are doing. If we find that life itself has exhausted our hope and fear around what we were doing, we find we no longer have energy to pursue that desire, so we don’t. Can you call that an attainment or “letting go”? Well, yes and no. It’s not the kind that you necessarily claim as a point of pride, unless you want to…

We get better and better at a hopeless task. We come to a brokenhearted humility and a Deep Trust in being through barking up so-called wrong trees, and that makes this the right tree for those who are drawn to it.

Making efforts to improve your life takes on a very different quality as you realize that nothing in life is enough, whether it is a “worldly effort” or “spiritual effort” that you use, even the effort of “giving up the effort” will not be enough.

For many people, realizing that all paths or non-paths lead to this is both a great disappointment and a great relief.

It’s not that we’ve been doing it wrong; this is just the nature of existence.

To the degree that this teaching is a path of attainment, it will disappoint.

To the degree that this teaching is a way to sober-up out of dreams, both worldly and spiritual, it is simply an honest pointing to our condition and situation and a way through.

There is paradox here that is very hard to put to language. Underlying all of this is a deep acceptance of the entire process of your own unfolding, including all of your non-acceptance.

It is deep trust in Life itself, including all of your mistrust and doubt.

Another angle at this is an understanding of three things:

1) That none of your effort at a better life can give you freedom, so it will not be enough.

2) That trust in Being (as life is) is freedom now.

And (here’s the paradox)…

3) Trust in Being includes trusting that your effort to improve yourself will play it’s part in the unfolding of Being, so don’t cut yourself in half by denying your desire to make your life be better or your awakening deeper.

Maybe another way saying this is the there is no salvation through works, salvation only comes through faith, but faith without works is dead….

There it is

So no, as a teacher I will not and I cannot guarantee anything about this. I just share my experience, that’s all.

Even when we are awake to our unlimited nature, which is absolute completeness, we are also simultaneously awake to our limited nature and that human limitation longs to be fully lived out as well.

Whether we live a life of spiritual desire or worldly desire there is nothing wrong with the innate preference to make things better. Making things better is the intelligent, healthy and natural thing that body/minds do.

Certainly it is sane and healthy to pursue better relationships, a healthier body, a more secure financial situation and a more authentic integrated experience of being in the world. There’s nothing wrong in this.

Certainly refinement of the ability to “let go”, “accept’, “be detached”, “be present”, “drop the mind”, “be vigilant” or “be aware” are sane and healthy habits to cultivate. Yet they are also forms of effort; the desire to change things and make them better, even though they are more subtle “spiritual” things. There’s nothing wrong in this.

When there is effort there is the potential to attain or fail, everything is temporary and every attainment will be lost. There is nothing wrong in this.

Even “letting go of attainment” is in this category; it is an effort to improve things by not improving things. The path of “no path” is a path and “not seeking” can become a form of “seeking” that is sneaking into the back door. Rather than kidding ourselves and creating complications in the mind it is better to just understand all this.

This life of limits is never enough, it can always be better and our heart yearns to change it and bring us closer to freedom, peace and contentment. As we look to change our conditions and make them “just right” we are looking in the dimension of change where things will never be enough. In our nature as conditioned beings we cannot help but make these efforts, which can bring us closer, but never close enough. There is nothing wrong in this.

Freedom, peace and contentment are not the result of efforts; they are simply the truth of our nature as unconditioned awareness that is present despite (and in the midst of) our efforts.

Is this really a dilemma?

How sobering

What a paradox

What a relief

There it is…

Disappointed?

© 2009 Krishna Gauci, Senior Teacher of Waking Down in Mutuality
www.wakingdown.org/KrishnaGauci/
www.krishnasatsang.com

Waking up is associated with getting enlightened or free by rising out of imprisonment in your karma, body-mind, and relationships, even this whole world. It’s an ancient spiritual impulse in us humans.

Waking down differs from waking up out of life. In it, you “fall” simultaneously into impersonal Being and your bodily personhood. Then you bring that infinite Self-realization into life. And you do that in relational mutualityOther-realizationwhich becomes powerfully transformative.

Saniel Bonder
Founder
Waking Down in Mutuality

“Waking Down is an open source architecture of organic transformation in a compassionate culture that catalyzes awakened integration.”

Deborah Boyar, Ph.D., S.E.P. – Senior Waking Down in Mutuality Teacher